[Detroit, MI] In this episode of Drone Law Pro Radio, drone attorney Enrico Schaefer Interviews CEO and founder of UAVCoach and Drone Pilot Ground School Alan Perlman about the current status of the UAV services market, and where it is going next.
Quality can be more important than price.
Flight training (general, industry specific and niche expertise) and software training (software and apps such as DJI Go App) can take a drone pilot to the next level, and improve the quality of drone services for customers. As the market struggles to get the pricing which will allow commercial drone pilots to become profitable, quality is becoming the big differentiator. As the market continues to split into market niches, such as real estate, public safety, infrastructure inspection, etc), specialized training is become much more important than the Part 107 certification training. Sure, getting your Part 107 license is important. But if you want to build a viable commercial drone service business, you need to keep learning, improving professionalism and improving the quality and value of the deliverables. Part 107 drone pilots always ask “How much should I charge for my drone services?” The answer, in part, is dependent on how good of pilot you are, how good your post production skills are, and whether you are able to manipulate the data output of your drone flight in a way that delivers real customer value.
Listen to this DLP episode to learn:
- What you need to know about taking your drone service business to the next level.
- The current market conditions and what we expect to happen next in the drone services market.
- How to obtain training on drone software platforms and apps such as DJI GO.
- Practical issues facing Part 107 UAV pilots and current UAS services market conditions.
Welcome to DroneLawProRadio. This is Dronelaw.Pro. We are Part 107 pilots become Part 107 professionals. Here is your host Drone Attorney Enrico Schaefer.
ENRICO: Welcome to DroneLawProRadio. Today we have a special guest, Alan Perlman. Alan has been around for a long time in the Part 107 and even back in the Section 333 space. He runs UAV Coach at UAVCoach.com. Alan has a very long background in the industry, and we see him at conferences and on the web. We talked too many of the people who have gone through his various programs. Today what we are going to be talking about is something we are really interested in because the big thing that everyone seems to be talking about in the industry, Part 107 Commercial Flight Operations Segment, is the movement towards from getting your Part 107 to buying a drone. Now we are in this market phase of what is the skillset that is being offered by the Part 107 pilot. What is the quality of the products and services that are being offered to the customers in the market because what we know that initially customers really did not know enough to make an informed decision that they really just saw price? We are now starting to see this shift from customers who know nothing; that customers who know enough or been burned enough to start understanding that quality is really important. If they are going to pay a little bit of a money and get very little of value, that that is really not where the game is going to be won. The services, photos and videos that they are purchasing, the quality is going to be the second very important thing beyond price and that you do get what you pay for. Let’s just jump right in with UAV Coach Alan Pearlman. How are you doing today Alan?
ALAN: I’m fantastic. It is Friday. It is good to talk to you Enrico; thanks for having me.
ENRICO: Great to have you. You have been on the program before. We’ve worked together before on various things and we know each other well. The reason why I wanted you to be on the show today is because you really have been moving towards this next level of service for your really extensive pilot community and it is in the flight training area. Before we get in to the flight training services that UAV Coach is now offering. Just tell the listeners a little bit of about the history of UAV Coach, what your business model has been, and how long you have been around.
ALAN: It’s funny in the intro, you said that I have been around for a long time and I feel that in other industries, 15, 20, 30 years is considered a long time. The drone industry, 4 years is considered a long time. I got involved with small and mid aerial systems back in 2014 when I crashed a DJI Phantom 1 into a parked car in the middle of New York City. It was a horrible maiden flight just trying to interpret the user manual. It took me 45 minutes to figure out how to calibrate the compass and turn this new consumer device on. I thought I would just plug it into the wall and know when to take it out 20 minutes later after the battery charged a little bit and have a great flight. That experience really shook me up quit a bit. I ended up researching a lot about these systems and found very little information. Online there are a lot of RC forums that have been around for a long time so I would find answers to my questions but on page 36 of 943 forum threads on a website that had not been updated for many years. I was struggling to explore my new found interest in drones at the time. I was not thinking commercially. The 333 Exemption process that you mentioned, the legacy process for operating commercially as a US drone pilot, was just getting started. I can’t remember the exact date when that first batch of five or six media production companies got certified was, but I think it was some time in 2014. We got in to this industry very slow. We started a blog and it was a nights and weekends side project for a while. I went to the InterDrone Conference in Las Vegas. My mind was blown. I came back calm, talked to my wife, decided that I needed to leave my job and focus on the drone industry full time. It has been a long road, but we have done a lot of product reviews and a lot of one and one conversations with folks on our email list. We realized that the one pressing need, the resounding questions we kept getting asked over and over again is how do I learn to fly? How can I get trained? That’s the angle that we took. Our mission as a company is to push the drone industry forward and the more responsible pilots that are out there the more professional pilots—they are out there; it helps out everybody. I am going to borrow a phrase that you use quite a bit: a rising tide lifts all ships. We need to see people in this industry succeeding and because the industry is so new there is just a huge opportunity for high quality information, education and training. From flight training to just understanding what the opportunities are in the industry, getting certified with the FAA and going through that process. There is no shortage of opportunities to train and work on yourself if you are trying to make it in this industry.
ENRICO: Yes. When we talk about the state of the industry, which is a really important issue for everyone who is trying to make a living doing this, there is only certain things that are even possible at each point along the way for most of these Part 107 pilots. Yes, there are those that are making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, they are fulltime businesses, they are out there really making it happen, but that is not where the bulk of the market is. The bulk of the market is the newcomers who are getting in to this space and people who have been around a couple of years who are trying to turn their one to two flights a week or month into something more. Given where this industry is today Alan, why do you think all of the sudden we are starting to see flight skills as becoming more important and more and more people are starting to pay attention to: You know what? I need to become a better pilot. I need to understand the software better. I need to be able to deliver more quality to my customers.
ALAN: Yes, great question. There are two responses here. The first is just the reality of being a
newcomer with this flying lawn mower that you are trying to bring up to the sky. I’m assuming that the new pilots are flying a multi rotor instead of a fixed wing aircraft. The general story is this if someone called us and says, “Hey, I just bought this brand new drone but it has been sitting in my closet for the last two months because I took it out to fly it and I had a really shaky experience. When I tried to land it, it tipped over and one of the propellers broke and the other one flew off ten feet to the left or I crashed it up into some branches of a tree.” I heard that twice last week from two different folks. These companies, they make it seem so easy to pick up a drone and fly. You can imagine somebody watching a few videos on YouTube and then going to DJI.com, purchasing an aircraft and thinking that it will be only a few short steps to get to that point. However, like most of us with consumer electronics, we skip reading the user manual, we power up the device trying to get the battery charged as soon as possible and take it for a spin. Now with these systems, it is a little more complex than operating a remote control car or point and shoot camera. You are bringing a flying lawn mower up into the sky. There is real sense of danger when you hear the whirl of those carbon fiber blades, when you understand that there are actual federal regulations in place and sometimes local regulations in place that govern the types of flights you are doing, then all of the sudden you are powering up some software to realize that I can take off and land, but I did not realize that I was locked into 15 satellites and relying on a GPS signal for a smooth flight, and that there are all these intelligent flight modes. It ends up being a lot more complex I think than the average person thinks when they first pilot one of these systems. That is were we sense a lot of opportunities for training is just helping people get over that initial knowledge hump. As far as differentiating yourself, it is kind of that second reason, that second bucket, a lot of folks that have been flying for a little bit I think the easy thing to do is to hang out at the bottom part of the industry: the craigslist’s crowd; thumbtack.com opportunities. I don’t want to lump drone base and some of the other companies there but just kind of the one off very basic flights where you are making $50 here or $100 there. That business is always going to be there but you will always be going to be competing with that high school student who has as drone and is not necessarily trying to build an aerial service business and he is going to undercut you on price. That is true in most service-based business. If you are really interested in generating income, whether it is on a supplemental basis and you are okay flying those one or two projects per month to make an extra 10 or 20 grand a year or you are looking to build a proper aerial service business and be in this industry for the next 5, 10, 15 years, then you have to start swimming up stream. What I mean by that is that knowledge is power so the more you understand the software and not just the DJI Go 4 app but platforms like DroneDeploy and Pix4D and Litchi. The more you understand specific industries where you might want to be getting business, the easier time you are going to have and it is not a simple thing to do. To say learn the insurance adjustment industry or learn how a construction site manager thinks, but when you are in these conversations talking about ROI, how you as as drone pilot can help, why this company might not necessary build its own internal aviation department and why it might be easier and safer for them and more cost effective for them to hire services to you, a third party vendor. Being able to navigate that conversation takes a certain type of education, you really have to understand this stuff so that is how we think about training and education with flight training. Yes, you have to understand what to do with your thumbs, you have to learn the basics of the software, good flight operations management, what to do before the flight, during the flight, after the flight, proper logging, maintenance of the aircraft and things like that. You also need to be thinking about industry specific education. Really look inward and figure out what your own goals are, are they financial goals, are they—I just want to get outside and fly a couple of times a month and it would be great to get paid to doing so. That is a much different approach I think if you are looking to get training than somebody who wants to leave their fulltime job and become a full on drone pilot.
ENRICO: Yes, it is really amazing to be part of an industry that is evolving that really starts nowhere and continues each year to grow and to become the next thing. The next iteration. I always say we are even at the point of true customer demand because most drone pilots are out there can convince customers or prospects to hire them. Well that is not market demand. Market demand occurs when the phones ringing and the contact forms are being filled out on your website and they are coming to you. Customers don’t understand, don’t know and are not familiar enough with commercial operations to get to that point where you really have this true market demand for services. One of the triggers that we have seen is that once a perspective customer’s competitor starts incorporating drones, that could be a really powerful trigger to: you know what, we need to start doing this. Once two competitors are doing this then the next ten competitors want to start incorporate drone services, once one real estate agent is incorporating drone photos and videos in their marketing technique, then really they need to start doing that in order to get listings so you are starting to see some of that happen. I always said that in order to get the right pricing, the industry, the Part 107 pilots really need to mature to the point where they are acting, thinking, talking like professionals. That they are seeing by customers as professionals so flight training is a really a key part of that beyond just simply complying with the regulations so let’s just talk a little bit specifically now about what your flight training at UAV Coach called the Nuts and Bolts of it were. What kind of classes are you offering? What should a pilot expect if they were to get flight training through UAV Coach?
ALAN: Sure, just really quick to comment your point on market demand. It is really important to understand the sales process. If you are out there trying to get business just because you have a high quality system, you might have a great website, maybe you have a friend, or cousin, or nephew who designed you a beautiful website, you have a few pictures on there. Maybe you have your Part 107 Certification, but actually getting out there and getting business, you are so spot on about the demand where people don’t know what they don’t know. You might think to yourself, “Okay, well my drone can save someone time and money and it might be straight forward to kind of getting that initial hook or that initial conversation going because drones are sexy and people want to talk about drones, but getting to that final sale where you could really understand return on investment and put together a solid pitch, it is a very consultative process.” There are very little transactional sales happening in this industry now. It is a mind set shift. You are not out there selling just photos or videos. You can imagine a wedding photographer where we sell wedding photos and here are our three packages and this is what we do versus the super high-end part of that market where you are consulting with the client ahead of time and really talking about the experience and the feelings you want to get. Sort of collaborating. That is were the drone is at right now. That sales process is very collaborative and consultative. I just wanted to comment on that because I thought you were so spot on. As far as training, over the last four years, we have helped over 13,000 drone pilots get in to the industry. Most of those folks have gone through our online Part 107 test practice training and I am happy to talk more about that process if you think that would be helpful. With the flight training, this is something that came from our students. We like to follow our student’s questions and student demand and what we found is that after about a year of offering our Part 107 test program. We would get calls and emails from our students: hey, so I am certified, how do I actually learn the system I bought, or what system should I buy and can you help me learn to fly it? We were having those conversations once or twice a week for many many months. It made sense for us as a company to start thinking about ok how can we keep adding value in the form of actual in person flight training. Candidly, that model always intimidated me a little bit. I did not think it would be an easy thing to do to not only to recruit but to manage a team of really high quality instructors and to build out a booking process and figure it out; it is just a whole layer of complexity that we really wanted to be deliberate about. It took us many, many months of talking and negotiating and trying to figure what model made sense. What ended being super helpful Enrico was talking to all of our students. It sounds kind of basic, but just picking up the phone and someone says do you offer training, hopping on that phone with that person and says “John, what kind of training are you looking for; how much are you willing to pay, what research have you done out there, what training is available out there; why are you interested in that or why are you not interested in that; if we were able to build training, what would you want to it to look like? We had those conversations for a while and settled on a really fun framework of training that is very geared towards folks with little to no flight experience. Now we do see students with flight experience get value from our training courses, but I can talk more about that. When you look at the landscape of training options out there for actually learning how to fly, a lot of them are not as approachable as they could be. Meaning they are too expensive, or they are only in a certain number of cities, and you have to travel to that city and the opportunity costs of taking a day off of work and going to that city and taking a day or two of training. You might not get that much time on the sticks so you could pay for an 8-hour training course and 90 % of that course is just PowerPoint slides. You are sitting inside, drinking coffee and may be having a snack and then you go outside and fly 5 to 10 minutes in an 8-hour day. That was the feedback we were getting from a lot of the folks. We wanted to focus on getting up in the air as soon as possible. A lot of that is based on my own experiences learning. I am not a theoretical person; I need to get out there and practice and stumble a few times. So we built these 90 minute one on one training classes where we work with instructors and we on board those instructors, we have training guidelines and standards for them. They meet with our students one on one at a park, or at athletic facility, sometimes there are great designated training sites depending what city the instructors are in. It is a professional training but it is also very casual. We use this 90 minute and personalize it as much as possible to the student. We have a framework in place that the student has never flown, we go through what we do before, during and after the flight. We have a wide variety acquisitions that we are looking for the student to gain in that 90-minute period. And then the instructors kind of adjusts based on how the students are doing. If the students have flown a few times before and they are able to do the basic 10’ by 10’ boxes and circles, down and backs and feel good with multi rotor orientation then that 90 minutes is going to be spent on software and getting into the intelligent flight modes and really understanding, ok why should you want to use tripod mode? Not only how to use point of interest mode and but why would you want to use point of interest mode and what kind of shots are you trying to get? When we talk to our students and instructors after class, it ends up being a really fun experience where the students are able to ask questions about regulations and airspace, but also get some hands on flight time. They are not in a classroom with 8 or 10 other people. They are able to get this personalized experience and it doesn’t cost $700-$900 to do. They are just meeting one of our instructors for an hour or at a field— it is a lot more approachable. It is a flexible approach for our students where we can sync up one of your local flight instructors with you and assess your needs and while many of our students are coming from the same place, people are using drones to do a lot of different things. So if we know you are interested in real estate or you are an insurance adjuster or your boss asked you to buy a drone and has given you a budget but you are not sure which drone to buy, maybe we can ask out instructors to bring two or three different models to the training. We are growing with our students so we are really responding to how our students are approaching these programs. It has been really fun and it has been a good experiment for us. We are in 20 states right now. Ideally, we have instructors in all 50 states, but at the same time we don’t want to open up the opportunity to train with us like signing up for Uber or Lyft as as driver. Granted Uber and Lyft do have background checks and certain criteria you have to hit, but they are not doing 2 or 3 rounds of interviews and knowledge checks. We really are trying to be careful about the quality of the instructors we bring on. I am so humble and amazed by the folks that are training with us right now. They are really fun to chat with and they are doing some really interesting things across a wide variety of industries and we always ask them to bring their own color and their own experiences to these training classes. That is where the program is at right now.
ENRICO: That is really interesting because there are the flight skills that are very important: getting the right shot, being able to understand things that are in terms of how these drones function and all the different ways you can make them function better. You mentioned a little earlier the software components. I represent software companies since 1992 and I am still overwhelmed by, not only the app, but as the apps get upgraded trying to keep up with the software piece of the puzzle. And, yes, I can use the basic functions of it but if I am a Part 107 pilot and I really want to get to the next level, one of the opportunities for me is to better understand the software–the way the DJI software works. Tell me a little about what you are hearing from your pilots on the software side and what kind of training you are doing for those pilots in order to get them up the ladder on software.
ALAN: Software is everything. It is just a fun antidote to kind of set some context for why I think software is really important. A couple of things. I was talking with a manned aircraft pilot with a 30-year career flying commercial for Delta. He reminded me back in WW1 if you were a pilot, you were the pilot, you were the mechanic, you were doing proper stick and rudder flying. You knew everything about your aircraft front to back, where as if you are a pilot today, you also know everything about your aircraft but you are more of a systems engineer. It is a completely different type of role and that is where this industry is heading. Back when I crashed my Phantom DJI 1 back in 2014, the type of intelligence that DJI had built into the app was no where near what it is at today. I feel that every 5 or 6 months, we are hearing about a new type of intelligent flight mode or a new app on the markets because the industry is so new, those who really appreciate and respect and totally dive in head first into the software, are the folks who are going to be much stronger and safer pilots. It starts with the DJI GO 4 app. The reality of the industry is that DJI has 70-80% market share or whatever it is. Most folks out there flying DJI systems, there is other software out there but if you are looking for a kind of a foundational understanding of what return to home modes look like and how to program some the of those intelligent flight modes and telemetry data that you are getting, DJI is a really good place to start. We build our classes around flight proficiency training under the context of DJI GO 4 app so we have all of our instructors trained in DJI equipment and they run through the nooks and crannies of the app. They are very basic buttons like auto take off and auto land and then you can go in there and pre-program battery notifications and max altitudes for return to home and there are certain things you want to touch and there are certain things that you might not want to touch but want to know where it is. So like any software, there is a learning curve. My wife reminded me that when she was new to Wall Street out of college going in to Wall Street as a banker, her and a lot of her cohorts took this class called Beat the Street which is basically Excel programming for super advanced folks who are going into the finance world. I thought that was so interesting and it was the kind of thing where if you did not take that class with the rest of the folks, you are gong to left in the dust these first few weeks on the job. it is the same, you really have to master the software and we try to drive that point home with our students.
ENRICO: As you are having these conversations with your pilots and I am having these conversations with pilots, some of the things that get often repeated are that you want to be in a position to take advantage of market growth as it occurs but also when we get to that tipping point where the market growth may start to accelerate, you have to have your skills in place if you want to take advantage of that tipping point. If you are planning on waiting for things to really start to take off as it were and then you are going to get proficiency and get specialized and become more of an expert, you can do that, but in many ways, you will be late to the game. The folks who have got their proficiency, their expertise all lined up are in a much stronger position. Alan, one of the things you have at the drone pilot ground school which is the Part 107 training for pilots, you have a great newsletter that you can subscribe to on your website which is UAVCoach.com. Now you have this drone pilot training that you are offering to your pilot community which I think you have something like 50,000 pilots on your email list. That is as a pretty substantial list but let’s face it, there are other training facilities out there, there is YouTube videos, there is self practice, there is a lot of different options for Part 107 pilots in order to become proficient at in both the software and flight training and other folks that actually offering flight training. What is your market differentiator? What is it that you feel as the owner of UAV Coach that sets you apart?
ALAN: Well let me take off my sales hat for a bit. The reality is that there are a lot of different ways. If we just focus on the FAA certification process and prepping for that test, there are 101 ways to prep for that test. The FAA has its own study guide and it is about 80-90 pages; it is not formatted extremely well and they are missing a handful of things, but if you are self motivated and have no problem reading through that 90-page packet, once you print it out that is as great way to study. Straight from the source; straight from the FAA. There are YouTube videos, there are $5 apps that you could buy and you run through practice questions. We are definitely not a good fit for everybody. We are in that online course part of the industry and we are all taking the same approach. There are other online courses out there: Remote Pilot 101, UAV Ground School, Dart Drones, Drone Launch Academy. There are a handful of high quality programs that are taking dense materials and difficult concepts particularly such as airspace. We are all doing our best to distill that information down to bite size digestible chunks where we make it really easy for our students to get through that material. We are all following online learning best practices. Where I think we stand out, I think that we have a really solid attention to detail. We are constantly in the course making small tweaks here or there, adding new practice questions. I added 30 new practice questions a few weeks ago just based on student feedback that we have been getting over the last several months. And the regulations are constantly– I don’t want to say changing at this point, they are not moving as fast as they have been, but there are quirks, there are nuances and there are things that come up and new examples that are being set where we can bring that right into the course. We are reproducing videos, and rejiggering lessons. We are not a one and done program. We email our students out every single week like you mentioned, our newsletter. We have a separate newsletter that goes out to students so any time we make a change to the course, there is something Part 107 specific, we highlight that for our students. We have a great track record. We have helped over 13,000 people go though this process. If you look at the reviews on our site, I think the number one sort of high five that we get from students just has to do with our customer support. We have Mike McGrath who worked in the Air Force for 25 years and is a really an awesome drone pilot and a nice dude. He spends half of his week just working with drone pilot ground school students. We are not a company where you send an email and don’t hear back in a week or two, or call and don’t get a voice message response. We try to get back to everybody pretty quickly. We end up doing a lot of consulting with students beyond the Part 107 test prep. When we are talking to someone on the phone, we may discuss software and hardware, and business marketing strategies. It is tough to draw that line sometimes, but if students are asking questions we are happy to help. It has been fun and we are not a great fit for everybody albeit I will be the first to admit that. We are a little higher price in some of the other online course options. We have some bonus lessons in there that are super helpful for students that are new to the industry such as pricing and packaging and flight operations management—things that the FAA, they are not going to test you on, but we think if you are operating on under 107 you should understand. We have a great interview that you did for us about a year ago that still stands the test of time about trademarks and licensing and the implications of operating legally under the regulations which is a fan favorite amongst our students, and we are always looking to add more value to our course.
ENRICO: Awesome, that is great. There are a lot of folks who just don’t know enough about the community, and who don’t know the long term players are, who is there to make a buck and who is there to support the community, who is in it for the short term and who is in for the long term. And one of the things that I always liked about with UAV Coach is you seem to have a great relationship with the people who come through our Part 107 test prep program, that you continue to support them throughout the business growth processes. They look to go from learning to fly to getting their Part 107 certification to building a real world business that generate—not only generates revenue but generates profit and is more than part time.
What kind of training do you see offering in the future at UAV Coach? Where do you think all training is going moving forward?
ALAN: Our training is very basic right now. Meaning, we are focused on basic flight operations, get off the ground safely, understand what it means to operate under the 107 regulations, make sure you get all of your questions answered about the basic foundational elements here right; airspace, regulations, what happens when you lose your GPS signal, and basic safety emergency procedures. Once that foundation is established, and we are already getting some inquires kind of next level training so that could be industry specific it could be equipment specific. We don’t do any kind of fix wing training right now. I could see us doing something like that down the road. Beyond visual line of site training that is a very different type of equipment expectations, operating cramp (33:58) that you are following performance base standards that you have to meet from the FAA so I can see us doing some training like that. Really just continuing to listen to the students. We are getting a lot of questions about mapping and modeling. How to use DroneDeploy and Pix4D. I can see us developing a curriculum around that. We have a lot of interest from police and fire departments. They are using Mavics and Phantoms and Inspires to do some basic work but they also have a lot of specialized missions that they would be flying. Search and rescue is a great example. Operating a thermal camera is a whole different type of training. There is no shortage of things for us to work on, it is just s matter of deploying it the right way. Sometimes I feel like we are moving molasses slow as a company, but I don’t want to get to a point a student takes one of our courses and doesn’t get any value from it. We are sort of trading that speed for quality and just trying to move with the industry but not too fast. Grow with our students; grow with our industry partners. Toward the end of 2018, over the next few months, we are very much focusing on operationalizing flight training, hopefully bringing on more instructors, and 2019 we will be looking forward to hopefully to roll out new curriculum.
ENRICO: Two questions, one is that if I am a competent, skilled drone pilot and I want to potentially be considered to be one of your instructors, how do I do that? Secondly, if I want to take one of your training classes, where is the best of way to make that happen?
ALAN: We are always looking for high quality instructors, and even if you are not actively training with us, if you have something to share, we are always looking to expose folks in the industry who are doing really good work (go to dronepilotgroundschool.com/instructor-application). We would love to see your applications come through. There are certain cities that we are looking to expand to. If you go to our main flight-training page on our site, you will see where we don’t have coverage. If you live in one of those cities, the chance of us looking at your application first are probably a bit higher. We do get back with everybody. We are at dronepilotgroundschool.com and at UAVCoach.com; operating two different websites was a decision that I still struggle with. It would be great to have everything under one roof but we have the the email list, and industry news, and the flight training are at UAVCoach.com and the Part 107 test practice program is at dronepilotgroundschool.com.
ENRICO: Thank you so much for being on the show today. This has been a great show and I think that the whole pilot training market and demand is going to dramatically increase over the next few years as these Part 107 pilots really try and hone their skills and get up to speed and become even more of an expert in the things that they are offering to their customers. Until next time, fly safe. This is Enrico Schaefer signing off.
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